November 14th 98 : Some forums have been created on different subjects we are muling about at the moment , so you can insert your mails directly in them : see the page :
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9445/forums.html
Hi all,
Some of you have been putting up commercial sites and propose we work together. So I thought we might all see if we can do this at the scale of Interzone and benefit from each other ressources.
Make a kind of cartel (lol) at our scale and see how we can solve the questions of money due to our different countries, etc... I have no experience with money as far as I'm concerned.
But considering the appalling present monetary situation, this does not seem to be a big lack, because it's rules are rigged.
The data we got in general semantics allow us to start from a use of money respecting its traditional function : a tool of exchange, the value of which consists in making those exchanges easier.
The present monetary system rests upon the belief in the value of money existing by itself, in other words, on an hallucination, as we create this value, which does not exist without a humain brain to conceive it. As long as the people beleive in it, the system works; when they stop, it collapses. (see the collapse of USSR, due to the end of the beleif of the people in the communist system).
Starting from this :
- how can we practically use money as a symbol of exchange ?
- which symbol of exchange could we choose in Interzone to be safe from the different devaluations here and there ?
- which organization to adopt in Interzone for the money, which would be profitable to all of us, and would avoids misunderstandings and conflicts if we start to work altogether.
A forum mixing our different points of view from the East and the West about it would be useful.
The big difference with our leaders is that here, we are all equal, (broke for the most of us), and complementary, share a similar vision of life, know each other's cultures and have basicly the same interests. We know we are able to work together after doing it for one year, that we have a huge potential and represent a chance for each other .
We are presently working at reorganizing the sites, to share the writings, which are huge, may be make a common site for Interzone, besides our personal ones, we could work in altogether, and would gather the commercial data, work, etc...
Let me know what you think.
Cheers
Iz
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De : Zanchyr <
zanchyr@cyberway.com.sg>********************************************************
The Western Lands
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Jeremy S Gluck <jeremy.gluck@dial.pipex.com>
Date : jeudi 13 août 1998 21:04
Objet : Re: Common organization for work ?
Spiritech UK
http://www.geocities.com/~spiritechuk
> >>>>Dear IZZI:
Further to our ideas on this community building exercise...as I said, I recommend to begin with a barter/open exchange of ideas and energies manifesting as directed...and to this end I suggest a "currency" be named and identified to make these exchanges quantifiable...the name of the currency could be found by a little "contest" amongst us and then selected, the
choice made by you! :) Then we could track how much of various skills
and services we are exchanging in monthly updates...?
The big difference with our leaders is that here, we are all equal, (broke for the most of us), and complementary, share a similar vision of life, know each other's cultures and have basicly the same interests. We know we are able to work together after doing it for one year, that we have a huge potential and represent a chance for each other .
We are presently working at reorganizing the sites, to share the writings, which are huge, may be make a common site
for Interzone, besides our personal ones, we could work in altogether, and would gather the commercial data, work, etc...
>>>>As many of us can build websites etc maybe a modest start would be a dedicated site on someone's server space that is a showcase for our proposed projects, incl. samples of various kinds...offers of skills and lists of skills wanted etc...I know the New Civilisation Network is starting something similar...and, who knows...why not get all the ideas in one place and literally cut them up...this subverts the conventional ideas of rigid business planning etc...
it is a form of brainstorming-by-other-means and intuitively feels exciting...anyhow, dear I attach my business plan for Spiritech...enjoie!
> JSG
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-----Message d'origine-----
De : chiki <
Bye now, chiki (from japan)
Raw Information network URL:
http://www.abstractmt.com/raw-info/rawinfo.html
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De : FRANK BLANK <
DEADJOE@webtv.net>capital idea. pardon the lame pun. those pieces of paper which we allow our heads to revolve around are in short supply for all rebels it seems.
especially here where it seems we are only free to becomes slaves or starve. let me know how i can help. all i've got is a brain and eye hand coordination. but i'm always willing to use them for the common good.
l8r g8r
dead joe
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De : Laurent Lambert <
Hi all,
I'm gonna send 3 tee-shirts here :
one in US, and 2 in Australia
(only one will remain, size M)
The people ask which money to send ?
What happens in we find ourselves with different currencies ? Would not we have interest in to keep them and
exchange them between ourselves when we need them instead ot changing them at the bank : so there is
no amount taken out on the sum ?
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De : Jeremy S Gluck <
jeremy.gluck@dial.pipex.com>-----Message d'origine-----
De : J. D. Steele <
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-----Message d'origine-----
De : e & s <cydonia@iws.net>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : dimanche 23 août 1998 00:56
Objet : real audio/video
Hey Iz,
I sent this message to Foe a few days back, I thought that other members of Interzone would find this useful too.
I noticed that you are into real audio/video. We are too, and we just got 25 megs of free space at http://www.freespeech.org/ All you have to do become a member (free). Please do not interpret this as an advertisement, I have nothing to gain here. The Zone takes care of its own and all that.
z
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De : e & s <
cydonia@iws.net>*********************************************
Max is making a magazine :
De : Grugier Maxence <mxzone@yahoo.com>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : vendredi 28 août 1998 11:18
"Le #1 sort en septembre, le 15, il s'appelle NET ZONE.
Il est accompagné d'un CD-ROM, et coutera 39 frs.
très beau le CD-ROM !!!
Je suis assez content.
Voici le sommaire :
Cybersexe, Cyborg et Androide.
(Stellarc, Orlan, les "Wirehead", ...etc)
Otaku, Zombies technologiques.
(Un super article sur ces barj' de Japonais)
Cyberculture et littérature.
(Gibson, Sterling, Egan, Noon...)
Kyoko Date, idole virtuelle
(c'est une gamine Japonaise qui vie sur le net, elle n'existe pas,
mais a une biographie tout à fait réaliste et donne des interview).
Sectes, Drogues et Rock'n'Roll
(comme son titre ne l'indique pas c'est sur T.O.P.Y, Psychic TV et
Thee Process)
John Waters et Divine
(no comment)
Paradis artificiel sur le Net
(ou et comment acheter des stimulant genre Kava, Melatonine ou Viagra
sur le net)
Cyber-beatnick
(de l'influence de nos chouchou : Ginsberg, Kerouac, Burroughs, Leary
et les Merry Pranksters sur le développement du Web ou je parle de
nous !)
le premier N° sera vendu dans les bacs "Adulte"
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Label record : proposition
De : ramuntcho matta <
ramatta@hol.fr>
Hi
I keep on thiking about making a label record
My idea is :
if 100 persons put each $ 100 US we got enough to
produce the first CD and then the selling will generate enough to produire more...
what fo you think ?
Ramuntcho
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Answers :
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Maxence <
*********************************
De :Jeremy S Gluck <jeremy.gluck@dial.pipex.com>
Spiritech UK
De : ramuntcho matta <ramatta@hol.fr>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : jeudi 17 septembre 1998 20:57
Objet : bonjour
je trouve formidable que l'idée soit si bien acceuillie...
le concept serait de publier un sound scrap book...
un magazine audio dans lequel nous pourrions avoir a la fois des documents d'archives issus de mon "heritage" et aussi des travaux en relation de l'enssemble des membres des western lands qui travaillent, ou ont envie de travailler avec le son.
Il est évident qu'avec le budget esconté c'est a chaque participant de produire ses propres bandes...
c'est une non profit organization.
Les œuvres seront publié a fure et a mesure qu'elles arrivent. Dés qu'une fabrication a atteint son seuil de rentabilité on en produit une autre.
l'idée serait d'avoir 1/3 du CD: document d'archive (BG + WSB) et les 2/3 restants seraient des œuvres originales.
Si certains artistes ont envie de travailler a partir des documents d'archives je peut leur envoyer des élements sur DAT, CDr ou par mail.
je propose, pour une question pratique, que tout soit centralisé ici. Les œuvres sonores devreont etre envoyé sur DAT ou CDr :
Ramuntcho Matta
MAAT
74 rue de Turenne
75003 Paris
les fonds seront a l'ordre de MAAT.
(c'est ma compagnie: je propose de créer un sous label qui pourrait s'intituler :
sound scrap books ou western sounds, ou ce que tu veut. Ce sous label sera une section totalement indépendante financièrement.)
Chaques investisseur recevra 10 CD et pourra en achetter a prix coutants.
Voila.
let's do it.
a bientot
ramuntcho
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De : ramuntcho matta <
ramatta@hol.fr>(I made the translation :it might be approximate sometime, sorry about this. Iz)
I find wonderful that the idea is so welcome ...
the concept would be to publish a scrap book ...
An audio magazine in which we could make at the same time documents of archives coming from my "legacy" and also works related to the set of members of the western lands who work or feel like working with sound.
It is obvious that with the budget we expect, everybody has to produce his own tapes...
It is a non profit organisation.
The works will be published as they come.
As soon as a production has reached its threshold of rentability, one produces another one.
The idea would be to have 1/3 of the CD : document of archive (BG + WSB) and the 2/3 remaining would be original works.
If some want to work from archives documents, I can send them elements on DAT, CDr or by mail.
I propose, for a practical question, that everithing would be centralized here.
The sound works will have to be sent on DAT or CDr :
Ramuntcho Matta
MAAT
74 rue de Turenne
75003 Paris
The money will be at the order of MAAT. (it's my company: I propose to create an under-label which could be called :
sound scrap books or western sounds, or whatever you want . This under-label will be a completely independent section financially). If it's more practical for sending the money, I can give the RIB.
Every investor will receive 10 CD and will have the possibility to buy them at cost price.
Here it is.
let's do it.
Talk to you soon.
ramuntcho
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De : Change77@aol.com <Change77@aol.com>
À : baudron@interpc.fr <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : vendredi 9 octobre 1998 17:08
Objet : Re: Report from Paris * (Napkins?)
>Secret Agent Izzy:
>great hearing from you again
>
>1. $50 i can do for CD
>2. would like to get that CD mentioned not by credit-card, if not a problem
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De : J.D. S <jakearoo42@hotmail.com>
À : baudron@interpc.fr <baudron@interpc.fr>
Date : mercredi 11 novembre 1998 07:18
Objet : Jake to busy Ms. Izzy !!
Hi Isabelle ;
It's so good to have you back and sending out all these dispatches . This agent is over worked and under layed ... what can I say , people are always complaining .
Thanks for the " Hotel " updates , I cannot do too much for this project right now , my timing is just out of step , I am still working on my software thing and staying alive .
I had a thought for generating monies for the - Hotel and Group - projects . Is seems to me that we must sell something practical that has some public appeal ie: Interzone T-shirts , Here - to - go T-shirts and also make some kind of noise about what is happening with the group .
The group IS a very different thing and has come a long way .
Why not have a proper - Financial part of the project - I mean set up a Corporate indentity - or something like this , to account for funds and such . It seems to me that this must occur BEFORE the Hotel etc. is set up . I do have a Lawyer friend and I think you also do .
I don't particularly like the idea of being " Corporate " but , if you're going to handle peoples' money , you have to have a responsible background ( a Corp ) to make sure things are done , with records which people can see etc.
I am just firing off ideas here but , what about a " Interzone Card " an ID card with a small dues charged each year . This could part of the financing and could give members some benefits . I am laughing because I am sounding like " the American express Card " ... but we could say ... " The Zone " ... don't leave the planet without it " LOL . It's very , very ... WSB , don't you think ?
I hope some this this twigs your memory banks or idea banks . Is this realistic ?
I look forward to your reply and future dispatches from home office !
with love ; Jake
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Hey all :)
Today was a good day : got a paper from the bank this morning saying one Zoner, Wales from Holland, sent 50 $.
So we now got nearly 100 $ , which we shall get when everybody has payed the tee-shirts.
I also received two tapes from the Ran, who is a great musician. Several zoners have been sending tapes since the beginning, so if their authors are okay with it, I can double them and sell them to the Zoners who want to buy them :so we might put up our own organization for the prices, etc.
This morning I called the liquidator for the hotel : and asked about buying the equipment separetely : she said the whole business is for sale at the moment, and if nobody has bought it on the 18th, then it will be sold at an auction, so there we may get the equipment for a piece of bread. If somebody buys it, then we can find another place.
Now we should consider seriously the question of the status. The association is definitely the easiest to put up and can allow to get subventions from culture. The society is more safe, and can allow to get money from the banks.
So I suggest we make both : first the association, with the Zoners involved here : and then the society, which seems the most serious to make businness, with other members who know about business and money.
What do you think ? does this seem relevant ?
The people involved here are Pierre Belouin, Gary Leeming, Iggy, Ramuncho, whom I all met already, and Max, from Perpignan, whom I never met. From Holland there are Wales and Rasta Robert.
So why not fixing a date to meet ? We might make it around Christmas. See what you think.
I think that the more Zoners will be involved in responsabilities, the best it will be for the whole group. Also we can make the association in one country, and the society one in another one, according to the easiest laws and rules.
Also, we might make the association here in France, were there is a small, but active group, and the society in US, where the big majority of the Zone is, including members from other continent as well (Japan, Lebanon, Indonesia, or Malaysia for instance). Jake in US proposes we put up a system of cards see http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/forum-money.html and make our own publishing house, which had already been proposed at the beginning. Today, we got enough books altogether to start a collection, so why not ?
Another idea to make money : I can make chocolates for Christmas and sell them to the Zoners.
see what you think with those ideas.
The academy on the web is growing very fast : Jeremy has put a lot of writings in the House of Light http://www.geocities.com/~spiritechuk/hol1.html
A lot of stuff too in http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9445/
All the best.
Love
Iz
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