Exchanges on business in the Zone
(below the comment on Flying car)
and The point on hotels, bars, money, work, etc.
(September 5th 1999)
Bryan Kilburn email@example.com and Studio X Presents http://www.neosoft.com/~arrt
"Flying Car Meets Fast Food!"
Coming home from a day at the beach, our driver decides to stop for a bite to eat at the auto-diner. The "Diner Xigitizer" was originally a Chinese/French LTD to market Indian fast food in 2139 but went bankrupt and was purchased by some Brazilians who then sold it to some Australian bank which sold it to some Norwegian group which in turn... well you get the idea and you have tasted their food and seen their holo-sign.
The car is an HVWR (Honda/VW/Rolls) 2178 AD "Retro". Capable of 500mph with a 30,000ft ceiling, it can fly 0.0 to 15,000ft in 30sec. and turn in less than 1 kilometer.
Inertia dampening is standard as well as the usual amenities including GPS (Global Positioning System), full data links, autopilot, third generation antigravity, and back-up flight and safety systems. Flying and dining was never so exciting.
HVWR press releases state that "The Retro was created from our customers' desire for something less tech oriented and more seductive. We chose 20th and 21st century designs as our concept because this was the great era of automobiles."
Although expensive, the HVWR "Retro" is fast and fun and sure to turn heads everywhere.
De : Baudron <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date : lundi 9 août 1999 21:42
Objet : Exchange on business in the zone
I'm forwarding this extract of your mail about business to a gang of buddies concerned by this question. We might make a group exchange on this, which I'll forward then to the whole Zone through a forum or a page, etc. I join the page http://www.inter-zone.org/clarific.html on the web so everybody knows what we are talking about.
First of all, you write like a French intellectual. There is, for many english readers, the vague sense that one.is not quite 'getting it'. This is not an attack, I get this feeling from, for example, Eliade, Battaille, and Foucault.
1.) The art trade is evil.
I think that art trade should be taken in hands by artists themselves instead of agents.
> 2.)Capitalism is inhuman. For anything worthwhile to be done with the zone's resources it is both possible and necessary that our business be conducted in a human way. Business practices, with, of course, exceptions like bookkeeping, will not allow the zone to conduct its work. However, we are not volunteers. Individual effort should be compensated in terms that are agreed to in advance.
No, I do not think so. I thank you very much for sharing your point of view here. this is very necessary.
For myself, my reference points are Blakean, post Marxist, anarchist, and Christian. There doesn't seem to be much overlapping of terminology between us, although I still believe that we are substantially in agreement.
Yes. We all have different references. The point is to take the valuable sides of all, and to see how they can complete each other.
Personally, I don't feel like a participant in the zone, so much as a fan of your work. I have contributed nothing that I can imagine having anything but personal value. I am also reasonably content with my economic situation.
> Although I like the idea of investing in the hotel, I am not looking for a better way to support myself. I am neither rich nor poor. I am compelled to work, but not to be subservient. I do not exempt myself from Adam's fall, but I am required to bow before no one but God. An economic debate over the future of the zone would have no effect on my situation.
We are a community which I keep together in some way through the coordination. So the result is enough to me. I never expected it could succeed so well.
Now the question of the money comes when I find myself in the present situation. I can work anyway with a formal job, but if I make it, I cannot go on with the zone work, nor the hotel, so I prefer to get the pension, which seems ok until now, and go on with what I'm involved in.
Now, with the commercial site, we can start to sell out stuff. Even if it does not work, at least, we have tried, for a munimum investment (70 $ for 2 years is ok).
De : Gary <email@example.com>
À : BAUDRON Isabelle <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date : dimanche 8 août 1999 12:33
As for the zone not making any money.... I don't see money as the zones
goal, aim, and as such within the capitalist system we live it isn't likely
to happen. If it does then to me the zone has become something else.
HOWEVER, that's not to say that within the zone there are busines and
networks and people helping each other out - that is what the zone is about.
I was perhaps overly sarcastic over the whole publishing thing. I am really
not that bothered about getting published - I'm more bothered by how little
time i have to sit down and write and how little writing I've done over the
past four years.
How you doing anyway? What's the eclipse going to be like where you are?
De : Mireille de Moura <Mireille_de_Moura@compuserve.com>
À : Baudron, Isabelle <email@example.com>
Date : vendredi 13 août 1999 19:35
Objet : Management
Isabelle Manager ! Golden girl ! CAC 40 ! Plans sociaux ! Mais J Pest bien Gérant d'immeubles, et il applique gaiment les principes de la SG à ses réunions de copropriétaires, et ça marche, et ça aide les gens ; pourquoi un management qui aurait nettement rompu avec le taylorisme ne pourrait-il mettre la SG en pratique, plus efficacement que ne le font certains informaticiens et certains biologistes....
Le projet est séduisant. Je manque trop de connaissances en économie pour juger dans quelle mesure il est possible de créer une niche d'activités, où se partagent et se diffusent les intérêts et les produits communs, niche où l'argent n'occuperait que la place qu'il "mérite" d'occuper : un moyen commode, plus commode que le troc, de rembourser les gens de ce qu'ils ont avancé en temps, en efforts, en compétences, alors que par ailleurs ils
doivent pouvoir gagner leur vie en évitant les angoisses de la précarité.
Mais cette niche peut-elle garder son autonomie, alors qu'elle vit à l'intérieur d'un système économique qui a sa propre logique ? Je pense aux difficultés des SEL, les réseaux d'échanges, que certains artisans accusent de leur retirer le pain de la bouche, de créer du chômage. Interzone n'en est pas là : la profession d'éditeur n'est pas menacée par ses textes on-line.
Peut-être au contraire (mais là encore je manque d'arguments "scientifiques") ce mode de production, avec le tout petit flux de pépètes qui l'irrigue, aurait un effet stimulant sur l'envie de chercher, l'envie d'écrire, l'envie de trouver. Voyant qu'ils peuvent ainsi s'exprimer de façon plus libre et spontanée qu'en se soumettant à la lourde machine des gros éditeurs, aux copinages des comités de lecture, aux limites imposées par leurs actionnaires, aux diktat de l'air-du-temps, les créateurs éventuels contribueraient à diversifier les textes, et en fin de compte à
rendre vigueur à l'édition classique.
Comme tu le vois, dans ma tête les arguments sont plus wishful que rigoureusement chiffrés ! Tant pis, je ne peux faire mieux.
Let's keep in touch, ' touch' de clavier, faute de nous voir !
De : Baudron <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date : samedi 28 août 1999 14:22
Objet : Price list
Making the price list of our productions, here are some propositions about the ways to make it :
- about the books : we can sell them under two shapes : in files people can download, and under printed shape.
Here publishers on the net seem to use the same method for the printing : printing each book when the orders come. They sell double price the printed version.
About the comics and illustration books, I can make them myself when I get a good printer. Definitely this system is much cheaper than a publisher or printer, and easy to make. Just requires a bit of time.
Let me know the price you want for your productions, so I can add it to the price list. For the money, the most practical would be that you deal yourself with the buyers, as I am not gonna get money to send it to you afterwards.
So I put your E-mails in the price-list, and people can get in touch with you directly.
For the anthology, how are we gonna make it ?
I'm ok to take a percentage for my work and time if I print the books, and getting the money back for the expenses (paper and ink), but for your work, we got to consider it altogether . In the English tomes, I did not write anything, this is all yours. How are we gonna fix this ?
Suggestions and ideas welcome.
The aim of this site is that we collectively manage to product and sell our arts ourseves instead of having intermediaries to pay (agents), or using the formal path, which definitely seem more expensive.
De : R. Gentry <email@example.com>
By the way, the Zone becoming acommercial group definitely do not seem possible: a part of the Zoners do not want the property of their art, which belongs to the Zone, they say. So if we sell them, we got nobody to take the money , lol ! lol ! lol !
Impossible to apply comercial rules here. They are not valid in the Zone, which I find really funny andinteresting.
Yes, me too. This is just as well. I don't think the Zone should concern itself with commerce anyway. It should be a free trade zone, a pirate enclave, a cloak of holes for artists, freaks and ne'er-do-wells- otherwise it's just another corporate entity. I'm glad the rules don't apply to the Zone, and I trust it will continue so...
Love to All,
The Western Landshttp://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands